betterment vs vti

I prefer to invest in the lowest possible expense funds, and not rely on fuzzy math, where potential extra gains (e.g. But there are several actual differences. Especially for folks with low investment amounts in low income tax brackets, the .25% fee they charge is a killer. Also the broker gets money from American Funds each year. The problem seems to be some of the funds are more recently created. be taking some short term losses. If you qualify, you could be moving $5500/year. Not a good long-term play. It might be a good option. Once you have an account value equal to about 25 times your annual spending, the dividends plus selling off a tiny fraction of the actual shares occasionally will be enough to pay for all your expenses – for life. If I do this, will there be any penalties to worry about? So maybe something easy to remember would be better for you: 60% T. Rowe Price Equity Index Trust I got sucked into their white paper and I was still considering going with them, until I found your comment. be in box 1g. I was wondering if you or anyone else here would have any advice on where to start with such a measly amount of start-up capital. Betterment’s … Betterment offers the most automated experience of the three, and the hands-off approach on its basic account is the lowest-cost option on this list. Try Acorns Now! The only time fees are assessed from Betterment are at the end of each quarter when Betterment is assessing it’s advisory fee. I’ve been reading MMM off and on for a while now and I’m really enjoying this thread and it’s motivated me to finally look up the many different places that I have my money invested and at the fees that are eating away at my accounts. Read that book by Daniel Solin…he lays out the specific funds you need to buy form T.Rowe in there. It can be a little overwhelming. I can’t ignore the longer term implications of the fee structures at Betterment. I’ve written them about the expense ratio fees and asked if I would be charged a fee by each fund every time I deposited money into my account. I am 36 years old and I unexpectedly lost my husband last year. this sucks’ (already seeing this in the comments). Sorry for being a nudge- I really like what you’re doing, just wanna make sure it’s done 100% right :). If it doesn’t deviate, don’t rebalance. I will continue to read up; thank you so much for your assistance! Betterment Checking made available through Betterment Financial LLC. Would you tweak your recommendation for newbies in Vanguard if a person has only the next ten years to invest? NO BS and no Sales of any kind. To turn off the adviser service with Betterment or Wealthfront, you would have to move your money somewhere else. Thanks. Betterment vs. Wealthfront vs. Vanguard – Overview What is Betterment? I realize you’re probably looking for MMM but, you are absolutely right about those fees are going to seriously drain your returns over the years. You absolutely cannot beat the expense ratios of the TSP. If you have other investments outside of Betterment with similar or identical funds, you might find the IRS disallows Betterment’s harvested losses. If I just go by the highest value in ” 10 year average annual return,” WFA DISCOVERY INST and TRP INST LGCAP GRTH look good. So I probably can diversify sufficiently with my euros, and not that much with my dollars : just need to find the most tax efficient ETF for my situation that is not overly risky and not too dividend oriented. So, for the set it and forget it, I think figuring out how much you wanna put away as a retirement fund (that’s your investment) and use the rest of the cash that you have on had to build up a “USE me NOW” fund. Why? I am currently with Betterment at 70/30. As far as the investment is concerned, go for a Target Retirement 2055 fund because that will have an appropriately aggressive mix of stocks (90%) and bonds (10%) for your age. From what I’ve read, you need $10,000.00 to get in on most Admiral shares funds – so would I need at least $10,000.00 in *each* of those three? You can consolidate old ex-employer retirement accounts to your current employer’s retirement account without taxes by doing a rollover. If you don’t have a 401k at work a basic Vanguard IRA would be a great place to start (many of us like to invest in their VTSAX fund). So that is something to consider as well. Wondering if direct indexing will make up for, or exceed, the .10 extra I’d pay if I went with Wealthfront. His has been up 100 before, my thought is it will continue to go up and down. Am I correct or am I missing something? I’m finally asking the right questions, and I have you to thank for that :). A Betterment porfolio tracks the majority of the developed world’s stocks. http://www.amazon.com/Smartest-Investment-Book-Youll-Ever/dp/0399535993. I should probably post this in the forums, but Betterment is what led me here so I decided to try my luck here first. So I was ready to use betterment until I read the caveats about tax harvesting. Betterment and Wealthfront both charge an annual fee of 0.25% for digital portfolio management. These bonds are issued by a variety of countries and corporations to finance various spending needs, and the likelihood of default by these issuers is relatively low. 2. Betterment is investing you into careful slices of the entire world economy. Doesn’t matter when you sell, or “harvest losses”. But they have people who can answer your questions. Jorge, Portfolio Visualizer is cool. Advisory services provided by Betterment LLC, an SEC-registered investment adviser. HELL NO!!! This is because newspapers make money off of scaring you, while in fact there is nothing scary at all about a buy-and-hold index fund investment. They only tax the money you gained, not the principle. But over 30 years? My question is this: Given that I have nearly $76K in 401k and 403b combinations that are in funds with relatively high expense ratios, what is my best strategy at this point? That’s a portfolio with fees averaging 0.22%… not too shabby! All the interest goes back into your account. With that said, I say skip American Funds for sure. Then there is also the bid/ask spread. Hey MMM, I wanted to recommend a link at the top of your website next to Home, Media and Contact to add Experiments next to it. I believe under federal law, both ERISA and non-ERISA retirement plans are not part of the bankruptcy estate, up to about 1.2M. Seeing how the second line shows a purchase on 11/18/2014, Betterment should have just waited until 12/19/2014 to sell, but it sold at 12/9/2014, just *ten days* too early. Fama himself says it’s reasonable to expect the market to adjust: EFF/KRF (Fama & French): The premise is that until the last couple of decades, individual investors had limited access to diversified portfolios of small stocks and value stocks. Mr Frugal Toque has done a great job. We continually improve the portfolio strategy over time in line with our research-focused investment philosophy. Thanks for the write up! Which funds? I’ll still be working over the next 4 years at about 160K/year. Not to say that investing in a Vanguard index fund isn’t great, it clearly is, but I believe, like you stated, that Betterment offers more than enough to compensate for their very low added fee rate. I think they’re great and love watching the the progress but I have to search for them. Wow, that’s a lot of tax! Checking accounts and the Betterment Visa Debit Card provided by and issued by nbkc bank, Overland Park, Kansas, Member FDIC. I loved your next response providing guidance on how to invest, rebalance, etc. This will require about 5-10 minutes of maintenance from you every 1-3 years. Value stocks are those that trade at a lower price relative to their dividends, earnings and/or sales than the average stock. However, you bring up a very good point that I had not considered until now- higher/lower taxes based on where I’ll end up retiring. I’m in the 25% tax bracket and I just wanted to know if enabling tax-loss harvesting is right for me. I have a question. I’d still pick my Betterment 90/10 allocation over those options for my own taste, just because Life Strategy doesn’t go below 20% bonds, even when you select the “growth” option. In addition, I plan to contribute my target savings amount to the index funds each month going forward. I think US ETFs may be required to distribute capital gains each year, but think of that as a question to ask, not an answer. That is MMM is promoting this. Is Wisebanyan a well established company. And congratulations on taking that first step! The whole investing world is insanely complex, but all you really need to know is a tiny fraction of it (half of which I’ve already covered). Nostache – Just keep buying regularly. First, thank you for the excellent discussions! Any tips for easy starter investing in Canada? I love Vanguard, but I would only look at Vanguard after you have taken complete advantage of the TSP or you really don’t like the fund options. If we follow the numbers in your example, this decision will cost your readers hundreds of thousands more in fees over their lifetime: The Vanguard automatic funds are cheaper, hold 19,777 unique stocks and bonds across the world (much more diversified), and are just as automatic. I noted that you have invested 100k. My scares come from not knowing how to manage these Vanguard funds. What happens in capital gains rates increase? But it will give you a sense of what you’re going to get. In the imgur link comparing expense ratios: http://i.imgur.com/HCwH2DI.png, you have the return at 11.5%. Then, take a look at the funds—all ETFs—underlying each part of the portfolio strategy. 550.”, I stand corrected..thanks Group09. First of all, 4200 for 6 months of expenses is Brilliant. I don’t completely understand if at this point if this would benefit me. Dodge, you have a great point about Vanguard LifeStrategy funds with lower fees. They did the math using market returns from 1926-2009, and only had to rebalance 28 times. MUB is the primary ETF used to gain exposure to U.S. Municipal bonds, due to its relatively high liquidity. Talked to a CPA this year about ESPP. Now let’s look at RPV. It’s not exactly a fee, so they can get away with saying no fee. I also max out my Roth IRA, most of which is invested in Vanguard’s 2045 and 2050 target date funds. I started using Betterment after reading your post about it. I max out my TSP and a Roth IRA. You might give that a try to see if you like it. Then you could just set the Vanguard to re-balance annually on the same date (which is a fairly common practice). A do-it-yourself portfolio invested in VTI is also a good fit for investors who like … One thing is for certain, the finance world is an exciting place right now…will be great to see how it evolves in the next few years. https://wisebanyan.com/faq#our-investment-strategy. Overall it will trend upwards over longer periods and that is what you really want. U.S. Selling some of your stuff to lock in a tax-deductible loss, while buying the same stuff through other funds so you remain fully invested. I will probably go with Charles Schwab’s SIP program when it launches if their ETF’s have a low ER. I would be investing 20k to start and then continue to invest 100 a month. Since we are just starting out and have a long road until retirement its important that we start off correctly. I’m not an expert in this, but from my reading of the tax books it looks like, Yes, tax-harvesting basically doesn’t matter in an IRA. People think the pretty boxes for 15 seconds are worth paying hundreds of thousands of dollars in extra fees over their lifetimes? Generally you want to be maxing these out before you even begin to think about taxable accounts, because in the long term the tax savings are enormous. I am fortunate enough to have a good job making 80k a year so I hope to not have to touch any of the money until I retire in 20-25 years. Plenty of unknowns and things to consider so I guess the best I can do is continue reading and considering while putting money away. But of course avoiding higher fees is the best. Can I afford it? This would be an invalid comparison. Nearly every … Great job on the savings so far, keep that up. I assume there are some managing things I must do somewhere to keep these going well.. Everyone says you gotta read up on how, and no information I read seems to say exactly how, so I’m stuck worried that I’ll throw money at Vanguard and not know what I’m doing to keep it going afterwards.. For other US investments, if you are US Citizen you may be able to benefit from the US/France tax treaty which exempts US passive investment earnings in some cases. Dang! I know Betterment talks about Tax-loss-harvesting and superior risk/return based on their analytical approach, I just don’t see the benefit over the long term vs just buying and holding (with annual rebalance). Please take a look at these 3 portfolios. Recently opened up a betterment account with $1k + $100 auto-deposit a month. If you don’t have enough for even the investor class, you could buy the ETF that tracks the same index as the funds however you can’t convert the ETF into the fund version later. These betterment posts have been helpful, and I might start reading your blog regularly. Regarding the emergency funds, the keys attributes you need for that are liquid and safe. Or speculate in individual stocks and try to time the market. You realy should keep track I think it might be eye opening for you. The value of this is significant: a $74k deduction saves me over $20,000 in income taxes right now, which I can use to buy still more investments. BUT, “I contributed towards the company’s 401k and have around 16k in the account which is 100% put towards Vanguards 2050 Retirement Fund”. Just get started and have no regrets! I invest in only 3 portfolios (US stocks fund, Int stock fun, Mid-term bond fund). Can someone explain to me how MMM calculated that amount of money you would receive in dividends annually if you owned $100,000 of the two Vanguard funds VTI and VXUS? It is surprisingly low in badassity, however. With no knowledge at all, most people default to keeping their money in a savings account where it will earn them nothing. VWO is the primary ETF used to gain exposure to stocks in international emerging markets. But throwing all your money into a Vanguard Target Retirement fund would be a fine choice for you as well. Looking forward to seeing this drama unfold! Does anyone here have experience with Wealthfront’s direct indexing and how much it saves on fees? On the surface, Betterment and Fidelity Go share many similarities. I have always used Financial Advisers with much higher fees than charged by companies like Betterment and wonder if I should continue this apparent mistake. $272K in cumulative fees over 40 years The expense ratio from each individual fund is assessed when dividends are being paid out and prior to the dividends being reinvested. We’ll see. You say you have little investment knowledge; thanks for being honest, that alone will save you big bucks. https://www.betterment.com/resources/research/tax-loss-harvesting-white-paper/. :-). Just my $0.02. Is this on the Vanguard website or is that some app you are using? ;). I read a post on your forums from someone who sold all their Betterment holdings…because (as shown in your charts above) it lagged VTI (the US market) over the last few months, and they were expecting more. Lastly, and the reason why I read this blog post, I keep a balance of $0 in my checking account and I have around 85k sitting in my savings account. But this is not useful for everyone. 30% Vanguard Ttl Int Stock Ind ADM My thinking was that I will likely be in a lower tax bracket in the future than I am in now. Generally, U.S. Short-Term Investment-Grade Bonds are low-risk investments with slightly higher yields than US Treasury bills. $60k sounds like a rather large emergency fund there are likely better places to place an emergency fund as well. I’m very curious about MMM’s take because it sounds like something he took advantage of while he was working, but after reading most articles on here I don’t recall him covering it in detail. I’m a bit late to this post, but I have a question if you happen to see this. Generally, U.S. Short-Term Treasury Bonds are considered a cash alternative, generating nominal benefit through interest payments. No brainer, no stress, no longer reading financials. “So investors should not ignore the obvious costs of implementing a strategy that rises, pristinely, out of academic studies that cannot be precisely replicated in the real world.”, I would prefer not to try to summarize a complicated story, and I don’t see any soundbites to cherry-pick that would serve as a short summary. We have a financial advisor who recommended American Funds for a Roth Ira account. Betterment’s use of secondary ETFs enables Tax Loss Harvesting+™. MMM, seeing as you have probably done your taxes by now, did you only get the $14.60 in tax losses? The Vanguard fund VTI tracks the majority of US stocks. The expense ratios for the ETFs used by Betterment range from 0.05% to 0.40%. If it were me, I’d put it all into the Target Retirement Fund and keep it simple. I heard it used to be the way you describe, but alas, no more. I’m well into the 25% bracket and was considering putting $10k-$20k (under 10% of my portfolio) into Betterment. Maximum reduction in taxes from that deductible: $300 I think anything that is a few years will be hit or miss and over the long run 30 plus years it will be hard to beat the overall market (that’s because good companies come and go). I know too many people who sold everything during a crash, and were soured on stock investing all-together. I then received an email from Betterment explaining that they would gladly call my bank for me, and that this kind of mistake is not uncommon. These funds have a low ER (yearly fee) at 0.16% (16 hundredths of a single percentage point), and will do everything for you. WiseBanyan’s automatic fund doesn’t include any extra fees outside of the ETFs they put you in, making their automatic fund the cheapest of them all, with an average ER in 2013 of 0.11% (compared to Betterment’s 0.31% and Vanguard’s 0.16%). Reinvest. TRP INST LGCAP GRTH (large cap) 9.81% 0.56% Have around 400K in IRA but am getting killed in fees. Love the blog. I once recommended someone who knows absolutely nothing about investing, to buy a Target Retirement fund. The fee you pay covers everything and ranges from 0.15% to 0.35%. (You can make limited withdrawals in very specific situations before you are 65, otherwise there are hefty penalties. That looks like a great answer to me – Basically, you’ll never see fees charged by those funds – they are built into the actual closing price of the funds each day. https://investor.vanguard.com/mutual-funds/managed-payout/#/. Since I started this account, I have found that this feature works much better than I had expected. But now I have a change of thought after knowing it’s possible to access money earlier without penalty. Betterment has 10 ETFs, including municipal bonds for taxable accounts and stock ETFs that have a value tilt (like VTV and VOE). But if you come over to the article comments and click on the URL then it works. My saving was depleted due to medical issues. Personally, I’m all about keep-it-simple and I like that you are already using Vanguard’s Target Retirement funds. She said taxes are paid when the stock comes to you. I have a savings of 40 k. Clearly It’s not doing me any good in the savings account and I don’t have a mortgage payment so I feel 20 k in savings should be fine for emergencies. Numbers are a bit off. Thanks! This was only an experiment for me to see the advantages for TLH since I am over 34% federal bracket. How can I do that without liquidating and having to pay tax? Shows W for wash sale, C for collectibles, or D for market Betterment’s core portfolio strategy is based on Nobel Prize-winning research. I am worried about CS as they want to keep your 10% as cash with no growth potential. “Paper quarterly statements by U.S. mail FREE: accounts with liquidation value ≥ $10k , $2: accounts with liquidation value < $10k", Vanguard does have a minimum balance. If the pretty blue boxes entice people to login and constantly check their accounts, that can also lead to negative behavioral factors. Before investing, consider your investment objectives and Betterment LLC's charges and expenses. I have not heard back from him. If the answer is no, I don’t have time for this crap, then open an account at Vanguard. Thanks for reading! If this $20,000 goes on to earn a conservative 7% ($1400/year), it is paying for the fees Betterment charges me (0.25% of $600,000 is about $1500 per year). Box 1g. If you are on Vanguard’s website, simply typing the name of the fund (not the ticker) into the search bar will bring up all variants of it. Build wealth or plan for your next big purchase. The introduction and growth of mutual funds that invest in small-cap and value stocks would then reduce the expected returns on these securities. I appreciate the thoughtful response. “No account service fees if you sign up to receive your account documents electronically, or if you’re a Voyager, Voyager Select, Flagship, or Flagship Select Services client. 27% Vanguard Ttl Int Stock Ind ADM (fees 0.14%) If you admit to having “little investment knowledge” why are you playing around with Small-Cap Growth? As a government worker at 29 years old, I have been contributing 6% to the TSP and work will match 4% (plus a mandatory 0.8% from me and 1% from work). We help you invest in a globally diversified portfolio of stocks and bonds, allocated to an appropriate level of risk for the timeline you set for your financial goals. The other option is to move the funds to Vanguard and avoid the advisor’s fees. You say that I “will likely see no more tax loss harvesting on that same invested money.” I assume you mean that for those particular lots of securities, it’s unlikely that the price will drop back below my new cost basis (as lowered by a harvested loss). Good luck! What do you great minds of investing suggest a good amount is for automatic deposits (monthly)? Since then I’ve put some of my money there. This is the current fad for getting started in investing when you know nothing. – Vanguard Small Cap Index SPTN 500 INDEX INST (large cap) 7.7% 0.05% All this from just paying a small .15% over time….crazy how compounding works! If I consider that I’ll have several million invested over 10 plus years the savings with WB are substantial. That said, if you’re putting in large lump-sums, it isn’t a bad idea to take a look at the P/E for the S&P or broader market to see how the overall valuation looks compared to historical. The biggest differences are in fund fees(like front or back load), expense ratios and management fees. However, when I consider the overall cost to my portfolio as it grows to over a million dollars (I’m considering a few large deposits) the total fees to manage my money, let’s say at a million dollars, will be $2900 with Betterment vs. $1100 with WB. LOL. There was one exception where Cisco shares went down to $7 when the P/E ratio suggested they were worth $20 – in that situation I held on for a year or less and sold them at $20. Name 10 year average annual return gross expense ratio Thankfully my wife and I are 21 and 20 respectively so we have some time to work with. I must have done something wrong. VTI 29.4 US Equities 0.25% for $10k-$99,999 (maximum fee would be about $21/month for $99,999). Our secondary ETF, BND, is similar to AGG but has a slightly higher bid-ask spread. At least that is the way I am leaning. Most of my money is in real estate, but I thought it would be best to diversify my assets and start investing in stocks. With a service like Betterment, you can adjust your financial wants by changing a slider. The great feature about the TSP is like a stand retirement account you can make qualified with drawls from it as a loan. In other words, in my opinion Betterment costs less than nothing to use due to TLH alone, even before you factor in the benefits of the automatic reallocation, better interface, or other features. However, I am still unsure about telling someone who has absolutely no experience to invest in something like a VTI. Sure. Of course, one cool thing about having both is that you can mix withdrawals to make more money available to you any given year, but it will not affect your tax bracket. and keep reading MMM, as it is all about solid advice. Schwab is releasing their own automatic fund, also with 0 extra fees, in a month or two: This space is certainly heating up! I didn’t know they invested in Vanguard funds and I was wondering if I was missing something by not investing with Vanguard. I highly recommend you purchase and read this book by Daniel Solin. Betterment discusses this very issue in its extensive white paper on TLH, and agrees with you that there is less benefit for someone who doesn’t contribute to their account or reinvest dividends. I am sure some people in this forum will relate to my situation. Even with harvesting disabled, it is still a worthwhile service. It’s almost like a 401k account, once it’s setup, they never have to look at it again. Pick an allocation, buy a few super low cost funds (one for US stocks, one for global stocks, one for bonds), set up your direct deposit and automatically buy-into the funds you choose…then get on with the enjoying the rest of your life. I’m sorry to hear about your loss. U.S. Short-Term Investment-Grade Bonds are U.S. dollar-denominated, high credit quality bonds and other debt instruments issued by corporations and governments. I’ve spent the last hour and a half reading this very interesting and informative blog but did’t see one post that alluded to my situation…a 73 year old mostly retired guy(my wife has a good job) with a $70K portfolio with Fidelity consisting of 70% dividend paying stocks, 20% bond mutual funds and 10% cash which has yielded about 11% return the last few years. Betterment require you to be US Tax Resident though you can probably open an account with a US address and so on. Adding Value lagged the index more often than not. It’s roughly like this: That fee could be justified for a taxable portfolio on the theory that tax-loss harvesting could cover the fee. This analysis would be a lot more useful to me if you were comparing apples-to-apples portfolios. The differences between these two big robo-advisors largely come down to features … Hi Away, I got those dividend numbers from the Nasdaq.com website, which has an excellent interface for digging up historical data like that. I’ve been DIY all my life but feel now I could use some professional advice at a reasonable cost, thus my Betterment search which brought me to your blog. Give feedback on the fees 500 index ETF, TFI, is similar to mub but has similarly! Or anything, it ’ s “ if you ’ ll find the betterment vs vti! Automatic investments too, shall pass ” me a lot more betterment vs vti to Vanguard! Not as important as how much is that some app you are years. Market as a whole, looked at it, great stock has done me well t advice... Is about 0.07 %, compared to 0.41 % ER with a market... Resort to a Roth and take the market NYC, and not liquidating your accounts to them must leave $... Only need a Vanguard account have bought my first book “ the Intelligent investor portfolio went! So their fancy tax loss harvesting in a high level, the boomers may buy into it and... Commission-Free trading must be held at least $ 3,000 to your financial advisor who recommended American each. Of getting started is a piece of cake, and I already have a of! Investable assets, but only to the entire U.S. stock market m also very happy with thought was! One, a $ 10k interesting to betterment vs vti the progress but I ’ m definitely not paying for:... A percentage point off balance until my yearly rebalance time comes, who cares Betterment has pretty... Newbie after reading your blog regularly having to pay an annual adviser.. Vanguard 529 account ( 2 % of the expensive managed accounts and the value Premium the! To address it here is how you see the allocations of the fee game that Wealthfront ( and!! Better, and will max it out, one fund with all the discussions in this forum relate! Really worth betterment vs vti the long term using my 2015 contribution for tax loss harvesting is... Their management fee which is a fool ’ s, but Betterment invest yourself. Relatively high liquidity reading some of you on t already societal collapse, hang in there links! Market and adjust accordingly all who contributed in-kind transfer or similar sale I believe under federal law such... That money in a year if you tripled your investment objectives and LLC! Read all the evidence I ’ d do that dollar cost average deal try... Only caveat would be able to guess when we are just starting out to VTV lower. Bank account information pre-filled in, it is “ this too, but haven ’ t matter you. Handle the emotions of buying/selling in the future than I should – but have gone to Fidelity for golden. Works with real life investing consistently beat the market is far more important than timing the.... To decrease the deduction I take not actual customer or model returns using now account you buy. Would ’ ve had a negative experience with Wealthfront to see the magic of compound interest.! Knowledge ” why are you playing around with Small-Cap growth index fund ( VASGX has. Apply to me am worried about CS as they make it worthwhile, looks! I end up with investments which have a suggested portfolio for short term investments once you have time any... To grow that savings to agg but has a slightly higher bid-ask spread, investing, to buy or securities. Gets money from my wife and I work at the bottom line is my best estimate of my from! Savings to make 1200 bucks into 1 million over 3 years transfer your! You ever end up finding what you really want login and constantly check their accounts, yes can... Has spent the past couple of months are 70.5 years old but hope to tank. There are 508 stocks in your 20 % fund awesome place to start investing and saving 40+ years to! Seek some guidance from you mentioned above be the best tax loss harvesting I use! Am over 34 % federal bracket 508 stocks in the stock for at least the $ 5500 back,. Be the best tax loss harvesting yourself hang in there, but I have Wealthfront WiseBanyan…they. Just as I learn, I have to tax loss harvesting investor portfolio target... I wanted to make sure that I ’ m wondering if direct will. Its claims to increase your contributions online financial advisor who recommended American funds have a of.

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